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Post by kugelfang on Sept 2, 2016 15:32:53 GMT
In an introductory post arthur1815 said:
Which got me to thinking... is cost really a barrier preventing people from gaming with 54mm figures? I don't believe it is. Now, if you're gaming with Britains, or John Jenkins, or other collector figures, clearly you are a wealthy man and my hat is doffed to your success. But with the plethora of plastic 54s now available, budget gaming in this scale is easy peasy.
When I first looked at gaming in 54mm, I recall that it was actually cheaper than 25mm--that is to say 28mm--figures. At that time metal 25mm figures were usually something above $2.00 per figure. Yet I could get 1/32 scale Call to Arms ECW for about $9.00 per box (16 figures) at my local brick and mortar hobby shop. So roughly... $0.60 per figure. And there are certainly cheaper plastic 54s available according to your aesthetic tastes. In addition, I think that in general you need greater numbers of smaller figures in order to get the right 'feel' and that, too, raises the costs for projects in smaller scales.
Now, prices have since risen from when I started and that was before the day of high quality smaller scale plastics which I believe have brought the per figure price down considerably. But still I feel that 54mm gaming is no more expensive than any other scale.
What experience have others had?
Size, however... yes, 54mm gaming does take more storage space and benefits by having larger tables. I can't refute that one!
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Post by rossmac on Sept 2, 2016 17:29:46 GMT
I remember the excitement of walking into the dealer area at Cold Wars years ago and finding bags of BMC ACW figures US$5 for about 50 figures! A little crude perhaps but they painted up well! Finances have often been an issue for me, given other lifestyle choices and no matter how long I drooled over the Soldier Pac listings and dreamed, armies of the size I wanted seemed remote. Then I saw Frank Chadwick's 4 figure 54mm units for his Volley & Bayonet rules so I started playing V&B with small units. Then I got into home casting. With companies like Miniature Molds on the west coast and Dunken in Texas selling copies of old Britain's, Authenticast,Imrie Risley, Mard and others as well as Dunken's Lil Army not to mention Prince August's lines as well as the growing flood of new plastics, full sized armies became cheaper than the latest 25/28's. I went back to a dozen 24 man units a side on a 6x10 table. Times change and I no longer have room for a big table and all those shelves but having been introduced to Morschauser by a friend in 2002, I was drawn back to small, 1 stand units but still wanted a bigger table to make the terrain feel at home which in turn suggested lots of units. Then Bob Cordery caught my imagination with his Portable Wargame and I'm still "recovering" from that idea. At this point I am willing to maintain that a very attractive and enjoyable game can be fought on a dining table size say 4'x4' up to 4'x6' (Mine own wargame room table is 4'x5' with an extension to 4'x7' in the making) if using either skirmish rules with a handful of figures or any number of rules where the number of figures in a unit is not counted whether Bob's rules, my own, Black Powder, DBA, Armati etc. or with rules like Ken's ATKM's rules. Just takes a bit of imagination and an open mind, especially when designing terrain. Ross gameofmonth.blogspot.ca/
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Post by 45thdiv on Sept 2, 2016 19:57:11 GMT
I think with all of the great sets in plastic these days, it is easy to game in 54mm. Even All The Kings Men sets in metal are a very good buy. I find space the be the biggest obstacle. If you want woods and buildings and such, storage can become a premium.
I was lucky to find the old Warlord tower by Conte many years ago and boight up as many plastic Norman and Vikings as I could. That keep is big. I store it in it's box in my closet. I'd rather have it on display, but....
I have a lot of the Conte WW2 play sets. They take up a lot of room too.
I am fortunate to have a room delicated to my hobby. But I game in many scales and I also like board games and roleplaying games. It's a fine balance.
But returning to the original post, there are a lot of cool things out for 54mm gaming and even though Conte is out of the picture for a while, folks like Barzso have been coming out with some very nice play sets.
Matthew
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Post by thegianttribble on Sept 2, 2016 20:01:00 GMT
I think DBA/Armati has a lot of potential for small table size, low figure count per army therefore, in plastic at least pretty cheap. In fact you could be encouraged to buy multiple armies.
For WW11 a few boxes of Tamiya 1/35's and you've got one hell of a skirmish game, potential to be very eye catching! Napoleonic rules such as Grand Armee, who says you need 1000's of 6mm figures crammed on a 3" square base, when a few 54mm plastic or metals (mounted like mini dioramas for extra bling factor) could do the same job, and have just as fun a game.
However I also in my minds eye see a large section of my garden filled with seven years war types, marching over the mole hills, even in plastic this dream may always remain so, although in my madder moments I'm to be found considering sculpting and moulding my own, as I haven't seen anything commercially quite what I'm looking for...good job too according to the Mrs!
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Post by davel on Sept 3, 2016 20:19:20 GMT
I think Plastic 54mm figures are cheap compared to the 28's, and you can get away with using smaller sized units but still get the same impact. Also new rules sets geared solely to 54mm gaming allow you to build up smaller sized armies and game quite cheaply.
I've bought "About Bonaparte"" and "About Caesar" rules which are designed for 54mm gaming and have cavalry units of 4 figures and foot units of 8 figures. Having painted units of this size (having been used to 24-36 figure units in the smaller scales) I'm amazed at how great they look.
"All The King's Men" rules also help to keep the size (and therefore cost) down too. I'm building British/French Peninsular armies using Victrix figures, and Macedonian/Persian armies using Expeditionary Force figures.
Best Wishes daveL
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Post by spiritofethandune on Sept 4, 2016 7:42:32 GMT
The 'About Caesar/Cromwell/Napoleon' rules by Dirk Donvil look great although I have yet to play them. I have seen Dirk's large 54mm games and the 4 mounted/8 foot sized units do look good.
I'm collecting Little Legion Zulu War figures and yes they are costly (although at the cheaper end of pre-painted metal 54mms). However, all my other periods are plastic and they are still cheaper to buy per figure than most 25/28mm figures.
Space can be an issue although if your 54mm units are say half the size of 'standard' 28mm units perhaps it all evens itself out in the end. There is no way round the fact that true scale 54mm terrain can be enormous, which is why I use true scale 28mm terrain instead. It still looks right on the table as non-54mm gamers at our club have told me.
Cheers Anthony
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Post by Mike Lewis on Sept 4, 2016 16:28:30 GMT
I think that grid-based games provide a look that works well with 54mm small units. Anthony and I have played The Portable Wargame with 6-man foot and 2-man cavalry units and they look fine on a grid where they might not on a normal tabletop.
Using Neil Thomas One Hour Wargames for scenarios, you need less than 50 figures a side for the armies.
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Post by briancarrick on Sept 6, 2016 7:01:57 GMT
Anthony and I also played Battlecry using small units of 54mm figures with 28mm true scale hills and trees on a hex mat (a custom made mat with larger hexes). The game flowed fast and worked well visually, the table looked like a proper old school toy soldier game (think Bob Bard or Morschauser) sadly we didn't take any photos.
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Post by manoftinblog on Sept 17, 2016 22:08:52 GMT
Now that Airfix etc are so erratic and expensive, there are always made in 'China Troops' as the blogger in his Small Scale World blog calls them - or Pound Store Plastic Warriors as I call them. Limited in period but great potential from pirates and Cowboys to knights and modern troops. They are often crude, often distorted, often a jumble of pirated figures and erratic in supply in pound stores, toy shops, online and seaside gift shops but on the plus side a great source of bulk figures for (paint) conversions. Costing often only pence each. Mark, Man of TIN blog manoftinblog.wordpress.com and its Pound Store Plastic Warriors sister blog site
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