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Post by davel on Apr 30, 2017 21:39:56 GMT
Before asking my question, I suppose you could say " look at the rules". But I would rather ask for your experience.
So, here goes. 54mm (and 40-42mm) gives us chance to put on lovely games with smaller units. But what size units do you experienced people recommend?
Dirk Donvil has 8 foot, 4 mounted sized units.
Ken Cliffe from All The King's Men has 12 foot + 2 command and 8 figure mounted units.
Looking at some of the H.G.Wells style units, I've seen 6 figure foot units.
What do you experienced players use and what would you suggest?
I'm just painting at the moment Ancients, Napoleonic and ECW, with a view to using Dirk's rules. I'm sticking rigidly to the unit sizes for Ancients and ECW, but am tempted with 10 figure British, 12 figure French and 8 figures mounted for Napoleonic set. (that'll give me some lee way with trying All The King's Men rules).
Then there's my Shiny Toy Soldier 1st Schleswig-Holstein 42mm range. Just can't work out a suitable unit size for those, or my Invasion of Britain 1898 range.
So, as we have this lovely forum with some very experienced players, I thought I'd enlist your help so I'm able to see the wood for the trees. Too small or too big a unit would, I think, spoil the look of the game.
Thanks in advance. Any help most welcome and appreciated.
Dave
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Post by rossmac on Apr 30, 2017 22:32:00 GMT
This probably won't help much but...:
To me it is a cross between how big my table is and what kind of game I want to play.
20 years ago I used the same sizes for 54mm as I would have for 25mm. For example: My War of 1812 and Colonial games were done with battalions made of 3 or 4 companies each of 8 or 12 figures including an officer plus a battalion command group (Used with my own With MacDuff to the Frontier Rules). We used Warhammer Ancients with our ancient armies using standard units sizes. For ACW we used Volley & Bayonet with 4 to 6 figures on a 3" square base.
These days my last 54mm project is down to 2 or 3 companies per battalion with only 3 figures mounted on a stand.
My 40mm troops fall into several groups. The biggest single one is my part of the Not Quite Seven Years War with full sized Charge! units of semiflat homecast figures. Each standard Regiment is made of 3 companies of 16 privates plus officer, sergeant and drummer plus regimental HQ.(yup around 60 figures each, 1/2 that for cavalry) I can't barely squeeze 1.2 of my units on my 4'x6' table at home so the armies don't get out much. This year I am going to add more units using the new Prince August moulds and am planning a campaign in an 18thC Colonial setting where companies are the units and am considering dividing each Charge company in half and adding an extra officer to make 10 man companies. I'll do them in pairs so that by dropping the extra command figures they can form one full sized company next time they take the field at a convention game.
For my 40mm War of 1812 I have been using 16 to 24 man battalions but am planning on standardizing at 18 with 3 stands each of 6 figures.
For my Colonial 40's are designed to play on a grid and I use 4 companies of 4 figures per battalion.
My renaissance units are adhoc groupings of stands each with 2 shot or cavalry,3 halberdier or sword & buckler or 4 pike or billmen. Usually cavalry, shot and forlorn hopes are 2 to 4 stands while pike are 4 to 9 stands plus an attached unit(s) of shot. (Armies are up to around 60 stands strong.
MY 40mm ancient/medieval armies are still up in the air but they are based like the renaissance ones and will either use similar adhoc units or be played on a grid with 1 stand units in which case armies will be around 24 stands on average.
Ross
gameofmonth.blogspot.ca
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Post by davel on May 1, 2017 5:50:16 GMT
Thanks very much for taking the time to reply Ross. And such a lot of info. Very much appreciated. My tables 10'x 5'so your info gives me something to play with.
Best Wishes Dave
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Post by spiritofethandune on May 1, 2017 7:49:48 GMT
Hi Dave,
I have decided to use Dirk's basing system for all my pre-20th Century 54mm collections regardless of what rules I use. When I rebased my ECW and Napoleonics according to his rules they just looked so much better than individual stands. My ECW pike in particular look great two to a stand offset, giving the illusion of two ranks. I should add that I'm sticking with Dirk's unit sizes as well, 8 foot or four horse to a unit.
Cheers
Anthony
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Post by Mike Lewis on May 1, 2017 9:23:11 GMT
I have been using 6 infantry / 2 cavalry for the smaller H G Wells style games as they fit into the 4" grid I am using. For the larger games, we are using 6" grids which enable you to use 8 figure units and 3 cavalry.
For grid-based game, the small units lok fine and seem to work in 54mm. For games without grids I would still use 28mm size units - so we are using 16 figure units for games with Neil Thomas Napoleonics rules based on 4 bases.
I am aiming at 18 man units for my ECW based on trays of 6 figures that can be used for File Leader games.
For The Sword and the Flame we use half size units of 10 infantry or 5 cavalry on an 8 x 6 table and that seems to work well...
Mike
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Post by davel on May 1, 2017 10:26:24 GMT
Thanks for all the thoughts and help guys. I just find it such a minefield and want to get it right.
Many thanks Dave
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Post by rossmac on May 1, 2017 13:33:12 GMT
Good luck Dave! I have found the right size several times but only until something changed, downsizing from a 10*6 table, change in game style, new ideas..etc.
But getting it right for you right now is always a good goal in my mind.
Ross
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Post by springinsfeld on May 2, 2017 12:21:27 GMT
For me it's the look of the thing rather than the rules (I rarely get to play games), so it's drawing a balance between what's practical in 54mm and what looks right. For my ECW, I use 21 figure regiments of foot (12 shot, 6 pike and 3 command) and 6 figures for horse. Marlburian I am using 6 figures for horse again, and 20 figure infantry. I hope to do WAS, Napoleonic and Schleswig-Holstein as well, but haven't thought too much about unit sizes for those yet. I'm aiming for garden gaming/layouts, so even a larger unit in 54mm dwindles away to insignificance in the great outdoors.
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Post by davel on May 3, 2017 18:58:27 GMT
Hi guys. Thanks so very much for all your input. One of my biggest problems with working in 54mm is that my mate who wargames with me won't paint in this scale, so I have to do BOTH sides!!
You've given me lots to think about, but in the end, I've decided to do what Anthony has done and Base everything according to Dirk Donvil's rules - 8 figures per foot and 4 figures per mounted.
Some of you talked about the look of the game/figures, so I've experimented and came to the same conclusion as Anthony.
However, that doesn't mean that all your hard work in replying has gone to waste, as I have my Shiny Toy Soldiers collections to sort out, so many of the ideas/suggestions you have given will be looked at in tge months ahead.
Thanks very much for all your input.
Best Wishes Dave
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